Is the 2.6 petrol quiet?

[fuckwit]

I know quiet is not a fashionable concept for sereis drivers, and completely at odds with the 'which engine' threads you see run, so I'm a bit of a lone-wolf on this but...

I drive my 109, and yes I do mean drive it.. It's not some sunny Sunday toy, but a 10-12,000 miles a year... real use vehicle. Last year I did nearer 16,000 miles. I like quiet, because mine's for everyday, I liek my Radio 4, I like to talk to my passenger. I do the school run most days and it is on the school-run I get to chat to my son.

I run a breathed-on & gassed 2.5 Petrol, and no I'll not be fitting a TDi precisely because I do drive it. In my mind fitting a Tdi is a bit liek going to McDonald's. Nothing wrong in it, just don''t do it often. Nothing wrong with a Tdi either, likely good fun for a Sunday-drive, but again not wise to do often. If you respect your hearing, it is just not practical for daily use. No amount of sound-proofing will shut a TDi up.

My 2.5 sounds like sewing-machine at idle. I havethe rarer twin-box exhaust and shed-loads of noise-killer, wright-off-road matting, Rocky-mountan door-tiops to stop the whistle, glass-fibre filled roof-lining, and the back is ccovered in 10mm rubber matting (like they use in stables) etc etc. It is quiet. Not much noisier at 50 thtn my eurobox. I don't need to shout. I understand the optional twin-box was standard on the six, and it made a differnce on my four.

I secretly yearn for a six or a V8, and my 2.5 is gettign tired, so my question, off the factory floor without silly headers and big-bore exhausts droning the whole body-shell, was a stock six quieter than the same petrol 2.25 or was there not a lot in it? Please realisie where I'm coming from, I drive it, and 95dB stops being fun after 15 mins. At three hours, ears ringing, it is not-macho, or excused with the word 'character' it is just wearing, and long-term damaging.

I am assuming a six is lower revving for the same road-speed. So it should be quieter (in theory). is it?

So sixers, if I can get one, compared to 2.25 petrol, by any margin is yours quieter?

[22900013A]

The gearing on a six was identical to a four, so there would be no difference in rpm to road speed to choose from. Of course FCs and 1-Tons is a different matter but fall out of the scope of your discussion.

I would personally say there is little in it, although as I do not (yet) run a 2.25 petrol I cannot comment with much authority. I have no soundproofing in SEB, and can do several hours driving it without any impact on my hearing, although one has to speak up a little to speak to the passenger, there is no requirement to shout.

I'm not sure what you mean about a twin-box silencer, my system only has one silencer box.

If I were making a "bitsa" 109 motor for daily use I would probably go for a 3 litre six, although that would be for the increased power and torque, and slightly lighter thirst rather then noise. I find all the petrol engines quite refined anyway (they were all used in Rovers executive cars after all) so they aren't overly noisy.

The 2.25 Diesel on the other hand...

[DasLandRoverMan]

Both V8 and six cylinder should be fairly on par with the 2.5, if not a bit quieter.

At idle with the right intake and exhaust both can be pretty much in audible, and smooth enough for spinning pulleys to be the only giveaway.

Personal preference for a repower of a petrol land rover covering 10-16k miles a year would be a sorted 3.5 V8.
The six is a lovely engine, but good ones are becoming harder to find, and prices are increasing accordingly. Spares aren't much better, and I do recall a chap who was a main dealer mechanic in the late 70's once telling me they were obsolete when they were new and some parts were damn near impossible to get even back then.
For big mileage I can't see it making sense, especially compared to the availability of V8 parts, and indeed the engines. There was a time in the late 90's toward the mid 00's where everyone who was anyone had at least 2 3.5's in their shed, so search properly and you might even get given one.

Again I'm not totally blinkered, I'm well aware the V8's have their faults, but looked after properly they're excellent little lumps.

I also like the idea of a Jaguar six cylinder. A 3.6 litre XK lump would propel a 109 along very nicely.

[fuckwit]

Thanks, I didn't realise the six was geared the same. I suppose if I thought more about it, it is fairly obvious.
Noise is a subjective thing, one mans noise is another's music and all that. I'm a bit mutton as a result of a mis-spent youth, so the high-register of conversation does not alwasy reach above any background noise, for me, any noise limits conversation to a larger degree than most of you.

OK I 'll tell. I run CNG (another thread?) so after the sunk-cost & compression, (I home-fuel) it is range rather than fuel that is the limiting factor. It matters more that one petrol lump does less miles than anotehr only because at around the petrol equivelant of 7-8 galls (GGE) my tanks mean I must then flick over to petrol, then it hurts. Then I have to come back on what the Germans call luxury-broth. Petrol to you. [can you tell I've spent weeks on the German erdgas-forum] This is rarely a problem, 95% of my miles are done within a 100 miles of my fuel stop. In truth I had kinda knew getting a sixer was a parts issue, but was liking the prospect of low-noise.

Looks like it's an eighter then. And an eight is not really any more thirsty than my 2.5 so range will be much the same. Neither are frugal. I wish i had a Stagey now. [Can I say that here??] What i really want is a modern petrol that does about 30-35 mpg. Then, I'd see 250+ miles, but with the concentration on Deisel in any engine thread I've ever seen, I don't know what is modern, farily cheap and would go in easily.

[22900013A]

It certainly seems to be the case that in Landrover circles, received wisdom is that to gain fuel economy one plumps for a diesel, usually a bit more modern and frugal than the motor coming out. Ten years ago it was the Prima, now it is the Tdi. Economics seem to be the only consideration though, as I know if I was feeling the pinch significantly (I am lucky that right now fuelling my Land Rovers is not really an issue, they are occasional use toys) then an LPG conversion would be my first consideration, due to the not having to put up with a diesel knocking away all day (I get quite enough of that at work thankyou very much) and the possibility to remove the kit without showing any evidence of it ever having been fitted. Hi-comp heads etc would be the second consideration, by then ONLY if the ordinary head required replacement. Whilst I had no real objection to the 2.25 diesel I had in my old 88" series III, I do certainly recall the dreadful din it would make on a decent run, and I can't see how a more modern engine is any less noisy, even the Puma engines in current Defenders are swathed under layers of sound deadening, and they are still a touch noisy when compared to a modern petrol-engined car. I don't pay a great deal of attention to the various threads on internetland regarding Tdi fitments, but even so, I am aware that excessive noise is a common issue with that particular conversion. Part of this will of course be determined by body type - in my experience the soft top vehicles offer the best sound-deadening properties as there is no metal superstructure to reverberate, shake, rattle and roll...

[DasLandRoverMan]

Unfortunately with modern petrols there aren't many (if any) that would fit the requirements of cheap and easily fitted, or indeed easily sourced.

The Rover T Series is a good little lump (2 litre 4 banger, a 16V O Series) and wasn't bad in the Mpi Disco, but finding them without electronics complicated by immobilisers etc is nigh impossible.
There's a few VAG engines that are pretty good, apparently the 3 pot 1.2 used in some polos works well in a SWB, but again they have ECUs, immobilisers etc.

I suspect that geared correctly a BMW 6 cylinder would also be good, it's still possible to get hold of cars with electronics you can work with, but again they're getting scarce.

Plenty of nice petrols, but something worth the effort of fitting is the problem.

To that end, the V8 still tops the list as a sensible option, most are dumping them in favour of Tdi conversions (poor fools) and whilst the technology is still 50s there's a lot of later bits you can use to update em a bit, for example an OE electronic distributor. Efi (if you really wanted) is simple enough to sort, whilst it can be fitted in the Series engine bay with little effort and no chassis mods.
Other benefits include standard fit PAS pump brackets, plus it can all be done utilising around 80% Land Rover parts, the other 20% being the adapter kit.

About as modern as you'll get without major ballache.

As an aside, you brew your own natural gas? How many meals a week feature baked beans?

[fuckwit]

You clearly understood without spoon-feeding where I'm going, so thanks for that, so the eight lump is still the way to go. If I could fit say a VW or BMW lump I can see it being more aggro that it could ever be worth. I want a life! i not interested in creatign a one-off engineering marvel. Why FFS? Putting an eight in is enough aggro, shame I can't get more range.

Baked -bean powered Land rovers is rather an involved subject. If you're really interested go to :

http://cngchat.com

A Yank site. The Germans are big on it, as are the Italians. With all that shale-gas it is coming our way too. Unfortunatley it is yet another thread I would need to write, and compared to deep rims, it really is involved, so you've a long, long wait!