900 Club Forum

BBC Article on the end of defender.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35285258

I hope they know what they are doing, but I'm really not that convinced they do...

It's very sad to see the Defender come to an end but I say that with my 'enthusiast' head on. It's all about the margins from a business point of view which are much greater on 'aspirational' models sold into saturated markets such as Europe and the US. Combine that with selling only about 17,000 Defenders in a typical year (until this year which has been exceptional because of it coming to an end) compared to 100,000 Evoques for instance, you can start to see their thinking… Roger Crathorne said to me in an interview 'we are here to make money, not cars'.

Its not all doom and gloom though. Rumour is the Defender as we know it will carry on in production overseas for sale outside Europe (i.e. countries where it doesn't need to comply with ever tighter EU regs). So JLR are keeping a toe in the utility market. Its all about brand identity and differentiation now in Europe and the US - JLR is strong on both of these and 'utility' is defined by affluent consumers now (can it seat 7, can I tow my boat/horse box/caravan) rather than commercial users or us 'weird' enthusiasts!

JLR are being very tight lipped about the future of Defender, all we know is that there will be a vehicle with that name. I suspect however that whilst I'll still be driving my 110 in forty or fifty years time (hopefully) the "new" one will probably by then be a bit like the original Discovery, once everywhere, now a very rare vehicle indeed.

As to production figures, it was JLRs choice to run the line only four days a week until recently, with no night shift, and to have more or less zero quality control. Likewise no advertising...imagine how many they could have sold if they had actually tried to sell any! Every one built has had a buyer waiting, that has been the case for a long time, and with a six months or more waiting time. So much for lack of demand...

I find it incredible, in fact unbelievable, that JLR have in fact abandoned the utility market now, as after this friday there will be no more commercial vehicles coming out of the factory, and I doubt there ever will be again.

All good points Dan but they've wanted to replace the Defender for many years but for a variety of reasons it has soldiered on far longer than anyone really expected - so with sales of other models booming (all with higher margins) and it fitting less and less with the idea of a what has become a 'luxury' car brand it has not been pushed for a long time.

I agree though, I'll be driving my 110 for many years to come but us hard core lovers of the utility model are not like most contemporary car buyers sadly!

Thing is Paul, if you take their "reasoning" to its logical conclusion they will just churn out billions of hatchbacks. A line has to be drawn somewhere. When you consider they offer 2WD Evoques and Freelanders you can see what I mean...

I don't know about hatchbacks but certainly premium cars (i.e. ones with bigger margins) that sell in large volumes - thats where the profits are which it must be said has lead to expansion and a huge number of new jobs at JLR in the last five years. They'll trade on their heritage no doubt and that's probably where the Defender's real value to the company is now

My heart agrees with you Dan, but my head...

Trading on your heritage only goes so far, once you cut all links to it, it is more or less useless to you. Why do you think Volksagen keep the Golf name? Plus, you can kind of see how the current one "evolved" from the original. My worry is JLR will be too radical with the new Defender, it will be more like a discovery with a different name. I hope I am wrong, I really do, but the DC100 didn't exactly allay my fears. I also think it is really odd that as the old one goes out of production, we hear nothing about the replacement, even though this is the most opportune time to discuss it...

All the talk about profit margins and profitability from the company is poor taste in my opinion. Yes we know they are in it for the money, but it just kind of comes off as greed. Whilst I love the heritage aspect, and the actual products, I think the PR from the firm needs an awful lot of work. Then again maybe that is the attitude football players and landowners expect?

To be fair to Roger when he said 'we're here to make money, not cars' he went on to say about their obligation to employees to provide them with secure jobs for the future. There is also the work created by contracts with suppliers - a surprising number in the west midlands and this has grown hugely in recent years.

Your point about the VW Golf is an interesting one, but I see the Range Rover as more like that - i.e. an evolving vehicle over several generations with no break. They have a real problem replacing the Defender, the company has become increasingly about style (the Gerry Mcgovern effect) but the Defender was almost anti-style so how do you then go about replacing it when its old utility markets have steadily decreased since the 1970s? Do you try and get those markets back or do you reinvent it? They've kicked the problem into the long grass for years but finally legislation has caught up with it so the problem can't be avoided any longer. It would be great to think they would go all out for a proper utility model/Toyota killer but I think (fear?) the next Defender could be more like VW did with the Beetle or BMW with the Mini - although maybe less than it might have been after the negative reaction to the DC100. The gap in producing a replacement only makes me think this more (and highlights the difficulty they had in knowing what the replacement should be)- i.e. putting some distance between the original and creating a new model that doesn't so much replace it as reference it. Scary stuff…

Have a watch of this…others feel our pain

https://vimeo.com/153011469

Your last point is an interesting one and one I had not considered - could the delay indeed be to allow us to "forget" the "old" model so the new one is not so, erm, painful? Sadly in the meantime the old big buyers such as utilities have been scratching around buying things like D-Maxes. I had a drive of one the other day, utterly awful.

I think McGovern certainly didn't understand why people bought Defenders - I totally agree it was *because* they are so stand out style wise, not in spite of that which is what he thought. He thinks the brand needs an holistic appearance and style which is indeed what most manufacturers go in for these days, but Defender buyers were always much more individualistic.