Thanks to Robin Sanderson for sharing the information.
Just for interest, I have copied below some email correspondence I had with VOSA a couple of years ago regarding towing.
To be clear, the first email I sent was regarding towing a trailer plated at 3,500kg with a modern car plated as 2000kg maximum towing weight.
(My emails in blue - VOSA responses in red).
"Hi,
I am trying to find some information regarding trailer towing with a PLG vehicle.
The information I am looking for is whether I can tow an unladen trailer which is plated at 3500kg with a vehicle which has a manufacturer’s plated towing weight of 2000kg.
I understand that I must not exceed the maximum train weight, and that I could be pulled in for testing at a weighbridge.
Could you please point me to where I might find this information?
Regards,
Robin Sanderson"
"I refer to your mail of 13 February to VOSA Enquiries with the above title.
You need to have category B+E on your driving licence to tow a 3.5 tonne GVW trailer with a private car/van. Category B limits the combined car + trailer GVWs to a total of 3.5 tonnes which is where the confusion arises. However I confirm that for technical purposes a motor vehicle can tow any trailer provided the towing vehicle's towing capacity or Gross Train Weight is not exceeded, regardless of the Gross Vehicle Weight of the Trailer. Thus your example vehicle with a 2.0 tonne towing capacity can legally tow an unladen trailer weighing say 1 tonne even though the trailer GVW is 3.5 tonnes provided you have the B+E driving licence.
The only regulations that make usage limitations based on trailer GVW rather than actual weight are some categories of driving licence (as mentioned above), tachograph and driver's hours, and goods vehicle operator licensing. Those that govern overloading offences, the Authorised Weight Regulations 1998 and the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 do not.
Steve Whitehart
Heavy Vehicle Process Manager
Testing and Support Services
Customer Service Centre
VOSA Swansea"
"Thank you for that information – very useful.
I do have another query, if you don’t mind, and I am hoping you can help me.
I have a 1958 Series 2 Land Rover. There is no manufacturer’s recommended maximum towing limit for these vehicles, as I understand it, certainly no plate stating GTW etc. as I think this was before the manufacturers needed to supply that information.
Is there a legal maximum GTW in these cases, or is the GTW determined purely on which licence you hold.
For example, I passed my car driving test in 1977 which means, as I understand it, the maximum GTW I can drive is 8.25 ton.
As my Land Rover has no manufacturer’s maximum recommended towing weight, and the Series 2 Land Rover (SWB) weighs approximately 1.5 ton, it seems from those figures that I could tow a trailer weighing 6.75 ton!!
That seems unreasonable to me; is there is some regulation in place to prevent that combination?
Thank you for your time.
Robin Sanderson."
"Robin
Responding to your follow-up mail of 19 February to VOSA Technical with the above title.
The correct driving licence to tow a heavy trailer with a car or goods vehicle not over 3500 kg GVW is B + E which does not have any trailer weight limit unless you passed your test on or after 19 January 2013. If you passed your car driving test before 1997 you will have this entitlement automatically as well as the C1 +E which relates to vehicles other than buses over 3.5 tonnes GVW but not over 7.5 tonnes GVW towing trailers. It is this latter category only that is limited to 8.25 tonnes GTW by the licence code 107 applied to holders of the C1 +E entitlement by previous car test.
According to the above there isn't a trailer weight limit imposed by your driving license when towing with a Land Rover if its GVW is under 3500 kg as most if not all of the civilian ones are. Given that pre-1968 goods vehicles did not legally require a plate then the only limit is the manufacturer's stated towing limit. This might be available in period publications or from the Landrover Owners Club. I have looked on the net using the search phrase "land rover series 1 specifications" and found a reference to a 1948-1958 S1owner's manual available for free download but unfortunately I can't open it here because of government access restrictions. What I also found was a copy of an official Land Rover SIII workshop manual which includes a section on weights at page 26 of 50 of the pdf. The manufacturers maximum towing weights are very conservative. I would not imagine those for an SI would be more than those for an SIII. See link below:
http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/M ... Part_1.pdf
If however you want a laugh here is a picture of a nice 1958 S1 LWB petrol now in The Transport Museum at Wythall (I'm a member) that was used by a large bus operator to recover anything broken down up to 8 tonne double deck buses!
http://www.bammot.org.uk/vehicles/v390fha.asp
The only modification is the jaw coupling for a towbar. That must have been fun. We're not planning on trying that again anytime soon. However perhaps we should pose a shot:
There is a general purpose regulation 100(3) of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 as amended that states "No motor vehicle or trailer shall be used for any purpose for which it is so unsuitable as to cause or be likely to cause danger or nuisance to any person in or on the vehicle or trailer or on a road." Whether a predecessor of that regulation was in force in 1958 is not known but I expect it was so I'm not sure how the bus operator thought it was legal to tow a bus four plus times the weight of the towing vehicle. Nowadays this provision could be applied if a police officer or VOSA Enforcement Officer saw a Land Rover towing something obviously oversize and unsuitable (like maybe a bus) but its major application is when an accident has actually happened because the driver has lost control of the combination, and after reference to published information the manufacturer's recommended towing limit has been exceeded.
I hope this is some help.
Steve Whitehart
Heavy Vehicle Process Manager
Testing and Support Services
Customer Service Centre
VOSA Swansea"
"Hi Steve,
Thanks for another very comprehensive reply.
I am a member of the Land Rover Series 2 Club where the question of towing weights comes up frequently, and many replies are unsatisfactory, quoting folk lore as fact and ‘a friend in the police told me ….’ etc. so it is useful to get an official view.
To summarise then – if it looks safe you are unlikely to be pulled in or prosecuted, but if you cause an accident, manufacturer’s limits (even if from a later model) may be used to prove you were unsafe.
Does that sound right?
Thanks again,
Robin."
"Robin
Your basic response is right, if things look OK and nothing has gone wrong. However I'm not sure there isn't a well-informed traffic constable or VOSA examiner somewhere that might institute a prosecution even if something hadn't got involved in an accident. As you say unlikely though.
Steve Whitehart
Heavy Vehicle Process Manager
Testing and Support Services
Customer Service Centre
VOSA Swanse"
So, according to one person at VOSA, manufacturer's limits from a S3 may be used as 'evidence' :thud
That's not to say I haven't done the deed a number of times, just like many others on here, without incident!
Also, it is clear that even though a trailer might be plated at 3500kg, you can tow it with a vehicle plated less as long as the load + trailer weight is less than the vehicle plated limit - depending on licence of course.
Cheers,
Robin.
Nick
